tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post4903583574151737776..comments2024-02-28T18:29:41.120-08:00Comments on Not of General Interest: A noble ideal, but will it fly?undinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05589384016564587214noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-91245612238481510702009-01-11T15:14:00.000-08:002009-01-11T15:14:00.000-08:00Bardiac--ah, the 60s, when all things were going t...Bardiac--ah, the 60s, when all things were going to be funded, including community mental health clinics so that the inhumane mental hospitals could be closed down. I do wonder what would happen if those levels of funding could materialize--say, take 1/1000 of what we're spending on the CEOs of this country and put it toward education.undinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05589384016564587214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-71115809187868775852009-01-10T23:04:00.000-08:002009-01-10T23:04:00.000-08:0060s level funding, yes, that would do it. !!!60s level funding, yes, that would do it. !!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-57315355022717208072009-01-10T07:31:00.000-08:002009-01-10T07:31:00.000-08:00The 60s were also the high mark of government fund...The 60s were also the high mark of government funding for education, no? Sputnik "scare" for science funding, cold war for languages and such?<BR/><BR/>Fund us with 60s level state funding; give our students grants instead of loans, and see how much things improve!Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-4901924731670958492009-01-09T11:45:00.000-08:002009-01-09T11:45:00.000-08:00carldyke, I think you're right about this being mo...carldyke, I think you're right about this being more a Platonic ideal, like the 55 mph law, than an actual set of guidelines for realistic practices. I hadn't thought about this as a declaration of the importance of lit in a hostile environment, but that is true. <BR/><BR/>heu mihi, if the schools would start good language training early enough, well before high school, it might be that others could have the same kinds of experiences that you did. European countries do this, and their students don't seem to suffer from learning a second and third language. <BR/><BR/>Bardiac, I didn't read the report, just the summary, but my impression was that the literature thing was more "traditional literature" than graphic novels, etc. I remember reading somewhere else that the sixties were the high water mark of language instruction, so that part didn't surprise me. <BR/><BR/>Fretful Porpentine, I hadn't thought about "coherence" as a restriction, but yes, there should be enough flexibility so that students have a chance to wander into fields that they wouldn't normally see. I think that faculty are sometimes threatened by giving those kinds of choices--you know, fearing that students are looking at a graphic novels course and saying "woo hoo! Pictures!" instead of seeing the serious study that can go on there. <BR/><BR/>Z, yes--the requirements seem to be geared a bit toward controlling WHOSE culture gets taught. Maybe I'm wrong, though.undinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05589384016564587214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-74882419403399975102009-01-09T06:31:00.000-08:002009-01-09T06:31:00.000-08:00Hmm, 40 years ago is 1968?I'm wondering how much o...Hmm, 40 years ago is 1968?<BR/><BR/>I'm wondering how much of a change happened with the GI bill, but '68 is late for that.<BR/><BR/>We have a foreign language requirement, but I'd guess it's not at a high enough level to study literature in that language. Or maybe that depends on what one means by "studying literature" in the appropriate language?Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-4675069492625708422009-01-08T21:28:00.000-08:002009-01-08T21:28:00.000-08:00Well, we do have a version of #4 here and in my op...Well, we do have a version of #4 here and in my opinion it doesn't work well for a variety of reasons. <BR/><BR/>We also have a language requirement and it's easily staffed, and fits easily into curricula, but it doesn't work well for a variety of reasons, related to the reasons the version of #4 doesn't work.<BR/><BR/>I do think it's important to keep up with #2. The key is to keep requirements really simple and to have a lot of courses called things like "Topics in 20th century literature" as opposed to "Joyce."<BR/><BR/>I like #3 and can defend it, I think, but culture sells better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-73002602170844071732009-01-08T12:35:00.000-08:002009-01-08T12:35:00.000-08:00But the fact is that I was *only* able to do this,...<I>But the fact is that I was *only* able to do this, receive a broad education, and graduate on time because I'd had unusually good training in French prior to coming to college. Given how poorly most of our students are trained in foreign languages at the pre-collegiate level, I don't see how they could possibly acquire enough proficiency in college to reach the goals set by MLA.</I><BR/><BR/>Yup. I'd be on board with a substantial second-language requirement if high schools were on board with it, but many of my students are coming to college with <I>no</I> foreign language training, and I just don't see how such a requirement would be practical in their cases.<BR/><BR/>I also think there's something to be said for an <I>incoherent</I> education, or at least one that leaves plenty of room for students to choose offbeat courses and pursue random interests, although I'm not sure exactly what the MLA means by "coherence."Fretful Porpentinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165078003123517013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-57499319416649711882009-01-08T07:26:00.000-08:002009-01-08T07:26:00.000-08:00The second language thing wouldn't work for most o...The second language thing wouldn't work for most of our students, but we send a lot of students to study abroad, and some come back pretty fluent (at least for the time being). But would those old schools have accepted fluency in Japanese? And how about Hebrew?<BR/><BR/>The literature thing? Do they count graphic novels? Film? Web sites? Because those are complex texts that my students learn about, while they're also learning about more traditional lit forms.<BR/><BR/>I think the senior prof teaching intro courses is more of a problem at R1s, and as usual MLA concerns itself more with R1s than the bulk of us. At every non-R1 I've had reason to look at, senior folks taught intro courses along with everyone else.Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-19237751794637382832009-01-08T07:08:00.000-08:002009-01-08T07:08:00.000-08:00Short answer: Couldn't be done at my college.We ba...Short answer: Couldn't be done at my college.<BR/><BR/>We barely even *have* a foreign language program, first of all. Second of all, as you point out, the college can only require so many credits. What with gen eds and major requirements, adding proficiency (let alone fluency!) in a foreign language would make this a 55-hour major. We'd lose all of our students. And as we are currently in a position of trying to recruit majors in order to prove the value of our department (and petition for a new hire), this is the last thing that we want to do.<BR/><BR/>I became more or less fluent in a foreign language in college, partly through a study-abroad program in France. I am extremely glad that I did so and I do think that it helped me as an English major. But the fact is that I was *only* able to do this, receive a broad education, and graduate on time because I'd had unusually good training in French prior to coming to college. Given how poorly most of our students are trained in foreign languages at the pre-collegiate level, I don't see how they could possibly acquire enough proficiency in college to reach the goals set by MLA.<BR/><BR/>Of course, we also pay our junior faculty about $16k less than the MLA's suggested Asst. Prof. salary, and no one from the Assoc. is beating down our door to demand that we get raises. So carldyke is probably right about this being intended to raise the "threshold of transgression."<BR/><BR/>(Sorry this is so long!)heu mihihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08529298049179816825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22001031.post-53108802459649350142009-01-07T23:15:00.000-08:002009-01-07T23:15:00.000-08:00No, I think as usual you're totally right.In terms...No, I think as usual you're totally right.<BR/><BR/>In terms of the rhetoric of these things, I'm not sure the objective is realism, any more than the objective of the speed limit is everyone going 55 or the objective of drug laws is everyone sober. What they're up to, I suspect (insofar as they're not just playing at symbolic logrolling) is setting a high threshold of transgression. That is, the real practical objectives are most speeds under 65, private recreational marijuana, and preservation of lit in English in an environment hostile to all humanities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com